August 18, 2014
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Nice guys deserve to finish last

Women don’t owe “nice guys” anything and the friend-zone is a meaningless term

Ryan Bromsgrove
Business Manager
Jan 16, 2013

This is an open letter to all the self-described “nice guys” out there, and one that I can sum up in three words: knock it off.

You know the type. They’re always that shoulder to cry on. They’re always there to listen. Their heart is five sizes bigger than other guys’, but gosh darnit they always end up in the dreaded “friend-zone” because girls are dumb and only date assholes. These guys then complain about how much of a bitch that girl is for not reciprocating their feelings. We all know at least a few people who seem to be stuck in the zone.

No. Just no. The “friend-zone” is nothing but an invention of the nice guy to explain why he doesn’t get the sex he feels he’s entitled to just by knowing a girl. Unfortunately, what these nice guys don’t understand is that you’re not actually entitled to coitus. In order to embark upon the adventure of having a sexual relationship with a partner, it’s not enough to just be nice. You also need to be sexually attractive to that person and your personalities have to click on a deeper level than simply “I keep bringing you roses — why aren’t we fucking?”

Basically, what you need to understand is that girls are more than simply objects you’re entitled to fuck after meeting a certain degree of niceness. You don’t get to just fill in a checklist.

Bought her dinner? Check. Listened to her complain about her ex? Check. Held her hair while she drunk-vomited all over your car? Check. Achievement Unlocked: Right to Fuck.

What you need to understand is that women are human beings capable of deciding for themselves who they’re going to have sex with. You’re not trapped in the “friend-zone” — like having a friend is such a terrible thing anyway — you’re just not compatible enough with the girl for a relationship. And that’s just for now, too. There are plenty of times when good friends turn into something more.

And you know what, if you really, truly are a nice guy, and you’ve been there for some girl for all her life, and she does, genuinely exclusively date bona-fide assholes, then her judgement sucks and she actually does not deserve you.

But that’s giving most of these “nice guys” way too much credit. Thanks to the Nice Guys of OKCupid Tumblr, we can actually get a glimpse into the minds of these poor, misunderstood gentlemen. These absolute gems complain about girls never sleeping with them despite how nice they are, while also espousing such opinions as yes, women must always shave, and yes, there are situations where a woman is obligated to have sex with you.

If you’re a nice guy permanently stuck in the friend-zone, take a good hard look at yourself and your attitude towards women. The problem is not that women won’t date you; the problem is that you are a misogynistic human being hiding behind an invented excuse as to why you aren’t getting sex you feel entitled to.

And if a woman wants to be your friend despite your dehumanizing opinion of her, count yourself lucky.



These people drive me nuts. They aren’t nice guys at all and are giving nice guys a bad name.

You’re describing a subset of “nice guys” that is being vocal online these days.

In my day (harumph!) “nice guys” were “put in the friend zone” because they just were too shy to come out and say they were interested, and they knew damn well it was their own fault.

On the other side, there have always and always will be a subset of women who understand that their nice, shy, male friends have romantic feelings because they’ve made it clear, but who never explicitly turn their nice guy friends down in order to string them along for companionship and for fun (source: talking to women who said that’s what they were doing to certain guys). It happens sometimes. That subset is being turned into a stereotype by the douchebag sexist objectifying “nice guys” you’ve written about, and unfortunately everyone else is stereotyping “nice guys” based on the current “nice guy” meme.

In my experience, actual nice, shy guys sometimes have the problem of never explicitly show interest in their unrequited crushes, who in turn have no idea how those guys feel. That happens too.

Posted by Marc-Julien Objois on Jan 16, 2013

In three years at the UofA this is the best article I have read in the Gateway. Thanks Ryan!

Posted by Blue Knox on Jan 16, 2013

Best. Gateway. Article. Ever. And a lovely contrast to The Wanderer where the sex advice column is basically a “ways to sexually assault women” manual.

Posted by Sarah on Jan 17, 2013

I’d been led to believe that the university was a hostile environment to plagiarism, but I can see now that my fears were overblown, because there is absolutely nothing new in this article.  With over 125,000 hits for ‘“nice guys” + feminist’, this narrative is about as orthodox and tired as it gets.  Next you’ll debut some ground-breaking expose about how politicians often become lobbyists!

Posted by Jessie B on Jan 17, 2013

How wrong can you be?

What your article is describing aren’t “nice guys”, but the Barney Stinsons’ of the world who just want to get into your pants. These people aren’t “nice guys” at all and are just giving the real ones a bad rep. What the friend zone is really about is when they do all the kind things you’ve listed but then when they reveal their true feelings about a girl they’re told “oh I can’t date you, you’re way too nice” and then the nice guys watch as the girl goes on to date multiple assholes. Or how about when the guy does all these nice things and then they hear you talk to your friends saying “oh I could never date him he’s way too nice.” THAT’s the friend zone.

Now, I’m not saying the guys have the right of way here. Maybe the girl will never feel the same way yet the guy will still throw themselves in deeper. But the nice guy doesn’t cling onto the hope of getting laid, the REAL nice guy clings onto the hope the girl will feel the same way about him as he does the girl.

Posted by Sam on Jan 17, 2013

To everyone who thinks this is newsworthy: knock it off.

Some of us have real problems.

Posted by Useless on Jan 17, 2013

“Or how about when the guy does all these nice things and then they hear you talk to your friends saying “oh I could never date him he’s way too nice.” THAT’s the friend zone.”—Sam

THAT’S WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY DON’T WANT TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS. If they’re not interested, they’re not interested. As Ryan pointed out, The Nice Guy clings to the hope for getting something in return that’s not theirs to get automatically. That’s the friend zone. In a hetero relationship, Dude is interested in Lady, so he’s nice to her. While they would say that they’re friends, and behave like friends, Dude’s got some strong feelings about Lady and a future they could have. When an attempt at something more isn’t reciprocated, instead of truly being friends, Dude blames the object of his affection for not digging his ‘niceness’.

You rarely hear heterosexual women talking about being friend-zoned, because then they’d be considered desperate/clingy/crazy for waiting around for their male friend to realize that they’re meant to be together (in some shape or form). No, hetero guys get to be in the friend zone, hetero ladies get to be obsessed. It’s silly!

Ryan is speaking the truth here, and yes, while it’s not the first time it’s been mentioned on the interwebs, it needs to be reflected more in mainstream media to all sorts of audiences so that this fallacy can just die already.

Posted by Kim on Jan 17, 2013

I have never used the term ‘friend-zone’ to describe women owing sex, or anything to anyone. The term friend-zone in my experience has been used to describe exactly that; a friend zone. Nothing more than friends (Not in a dating relationship). Never have I heard it to mean that women owe men anything

Posted by User101 on Jan 18, 2013

he recognizes how women are real people. what a nice guy.

Posted by Mike on Jan 20, 2013

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